Discussion:
GnuCash vs. Quicken
t***@accesscomm.ca
2002-12-04 18:06:35 UTC
Permalink
I have been using Quicken for many years but am now considering switching
to GnuCash. I am having a bit of trouble wrapping my mind around
double-entry accounting. I asked my accountant friend about this and he
said "Forget it - keep on using Quicken! For your personal finances
double-entry accounting is overkill and you will soon get tired of it!"
What are your opinions? I am having a hard-enough time keeping up-to-date
with my single-entry Quicken accounting. Is GnuCash right for me?

Thanks in advance

Thomas

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Benoit Grégoire
2002-12-04 18:20:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@accesscomm.ca
I have been using Quicken for many years but am now considering switching
to GnuCash. I am having a bit of trouble wrapping my mind around
double-entry accounting. I asked my accountant friend about this and he
said "Forget it - keep on using Quicken! For your personal finances
double-entry accounting is overkill and you will soon get tired of it!"
What are your opinions? I am having a hard-enough time keeping up-to-date
with my single-entry Quicken accounting. Is GnuCash right for me?
If you already use Quicken categories systematically, it's unlikely that you
will find GnuCash double entry to be more day to day work. If you don't,
GnuCash is indeed overkill for you, but most likely so is Quicken.

Good luck,
--
Benoit Grégoire
http://step.polymtl.ca/~bock/
McComas, Stacey
2002-12-04 19:17:08 UTC
Permalink
Read the "10 minute guide to accounting". It does a great job of explaining
double-entry accounting, and will help you set up your accounts in gnucash.

It can be a bit tedious setting everything up at first, but you'll find it
to be no more work than Quicken after the first few times.

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@accesscomm.ca [mailto:***@accesscomm.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 12:07 PM
To: gnucash-***@lists.gnucash.org
Subject: GnuCash vs. Quicken


I have been using Quicken for many years but am now considering switching
to GnuCash. I am having a bit of trouble wrapping my mind around
double-entry accounting. I asked my accountant friend about this and he
said "Forget it - keep on using Quicken! For your personal finances
double-entry accounting is overkill and you will soon get tired of it!"
What are your opinions? I am having a hard-enough time keeping up-to-date
with my single-entry Quicken accounting. Is GnuCash right for me?

Thanks in advance

Thomas

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Roland Roberts
2002-12-04 21:17:35 UTC
Permalink
thomas> I have been using Quicken for many years but am now
thomas> considering switching to GnuCash. I am having a bit of
thomas> trouble wrapping my mind around double-entry accounting.
thomas> I asked my accountant friend about this and he said
thomas> "Forget it - keep on using Quicken! For your personal
thomas> finances double-entry accounting is overkill and you will
thomas> soon get tired of it!" What are your opinions? I am
thomas> having a hard-enough time keeping up-to-date with my
thomas> single-entry Quicken accounting. Is GnuCash right for me?

Your friend is mistaken. Quicken's single-entry approach allows you
to make horrible mistakes. I have a Quicken account for my checking
account and another one for my "wallet". I usually enter a withdrawal
from an ATM by going to my "Wallet" account and recording a transfer
from checking. Occasionally I would go to the "Checking" account and
do the entry. On more than one occasion, I inadvertently entered the
withdrawal as taking money from checkin and putting it into checking.
Should be a zero-sum transfer, right? Not with Quicken....

Besides, GnuCash does most of the dirty work for the double-entry
bookkeeping.

roland
--
PGP Key ID: 66 BC 3B CD
Roland B. Roberts, PhD RL Enterprises
***@rlenter.com 6818 Madeline Court
***@astrofoto.org Brooklyn, NY 11220
Rich Shepard
2002-12-04 21:57:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@accesscomm.ca
I am having a bit of trouble wrapping my mind around
double-entry accounting. I asked my accountant friend about
this and he said "Forget it - keep on using Quicken! For your
personal finances double-entry accounting is overkill and you
will soon get tired of it!"
Your friend is mistaken. Quicken's single-entry approach allows you
to make horrible mistakes.
Allow me to elaborate. I've posted responses to this question in the past,
but it is a legitimate complaint. First, the context: I'm not an accountant,
but I've used double-entry bookkeeping since 1986 for my personal funds
(starting with MoneyCounts on DOS) and since 1993 for my business accounts.
As an aside, when I started using gnucash my problem was not understanding
double-entry bookkeeping, but figuring out how gnucash implemented it. Now
it's a no-brainer (except that I keep hitting the [Enter] key in the middle
of a transaction instead of the [Tab] key). Sigh.

Double-entry bookkeeping is a simple idea: every transaction has two
parts. One part describes where the money originates, the other part
describes where the money goes.

Examples:

You get your paycheck and deposit it in your bank. Within gnucash you can
handle this in one of at least two ways.

1) You have two accounts: a Current Asset bank account and an
Income/Salary account. When you make your deposit in gnucash, you debit the
Asset account (which increases its balance; that's where the opening balance
goes, too), and you credit the Income account.

2) You have a Current Asset checking account, an income account and
liability accounts for withheld taxes. Again, you credit the _gross_ amount
of your pay into the Income account. But, this time, you make a split
transaction for the other side: the _net_ amount is debited to your Asset
(checking) account and the withheld taxes are credited to the tax liability
accounts.

When you write a check, you fill in the payee's name, correct? Well, in a
double-entry bookkeeping system you track the payee as well as the check
number, date and amount. Here, you will credit (decrease) your Asset
(checking) account and you'll debit (increase) the Expense account. What
this does is two things: it makes sure that you account completely for every
transfer of money and it lets you see how much you spend on each type of
expense or each vendor (store).

BTW, as I'm not an accountant, I keep a hand-written table of what ledger
account is debited and what is credited taped to the computer desk here.
Despite doing this for years, when I need to check which side is "increase"
and which is "decrease" for a new transaction I look at my table. :-) BUT,
the important part is that gnucash makes it easy for you. I use the
accounting terms in my registers, but I think there's a non-accounting term
option, too.

You won't get tired of it. Instead, you'll find so much useful information
that you'll wonder why you didn't do this years ago.

If it would help, I'll post on this mail list the accounting ledger crib
sheet I created.

HTH,

Rich

Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President

Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM)
2404 SW 22nd Street | Troutdale, OR 97060-1247 | U.S.A.
+ 1 503-667-4517 (voice) | + 1 503-667-8863 (fax) | ***@appl-ecosys.com
http://www.appl-ecosys.com/
w***@qx.net
2002-12-05 03:19:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Shepard
If it would help, I'll post on this mail list the accounting ledger crib
sheet I created.
I for one would love to see the crib sheet. Thanks!
--
Wes Sheldahl
***@qx.net
Rich Shepard
2002-12-05 04:44:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@qx.net
I for one would love to see the crib sheet. Thanks!
Sigh. I prepared the answer and quickly sent it off. Only to Boyd by
mistake rather than to the list. So, I just resent it to the list. (Ignore
the second copy, Boyd.)

Rich

Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President

Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM)
2404 SW 22nd Street | Troutdale, OR 97060-1247 | U.S.A.
+ 1 503-667-4517 (voice) | + 1 503-667-8863 (fax) | ***@appl-ecosys.com
http://www.appl-ecosys.com/
d***@mjollnir.gooroos.com
2002-12-05 19:07:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Shepard
You get your paycheck and deposit it in your bank. Within gnucash you can
handle this in one of at least two ways.
[...]
Post by Rich Shepard
2) You have a Current Asset checking account, an income account and
liability accounts for withheld taxes. Again, you credit the _gross_ amount
of your pay into the Income account. But, this time, you make a split
transaction for the other side: the _net_ amount is debited to your Asset
(checking) account and the withheld taxes are credited to the tax liability
accounts.
Your debits and credits don't balance.

Shouldn't you be *debiting* the withheld taxes? After all, by being
withheld, they represent taxes which you've now paid, so your tax liability
for the year has decreased and liabilities are decreased by a debit.

===========================================================================
- deane Gooroos Software: Plugging you into Maya

Visit http://www.gooroos.com for more information
Rich Shepard
2002-12-05 19:19:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@mjollnir.gooroos.com
Shouldn't you be *debiting* the withheld taxes? After all, by being
withheld, they represent taxes which you've now paid, so your tax liability
for the year has decreased and liabilities are decreased by a debit.
Yup. I wrote that I'm not an accountant :-) and I was putting this
together quickly. It didn't look right, but the point I was trying to make
is that when you put your gross amount in an income account gnucash will
then let you make a split transaction of withheld taxes and net income to
the appropriate accounts. As you do this the proper column is easy to see.

I let my accountant handle the taxes (and the business pays them), so I've
always entered only gross pay. But, it can be done either way.

Thanks,

Rich

Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President

Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM)
2404 SW 22nd Street | Troutdale, OR 97060-1247 | U.S.A.
+ 1 503-667-4517 (voice) | + 1 503-667-8863 (fax) | ***@appl-ecosys.com
http://www.appl-ecosys.com/
Seth Gordon
2002-12-04 21:42:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@accesscomm.ca
I have been using Quicken for many years but am now considering switching
to GnuCash. I am having a bit of trouble wrapping my mind around
double-entry accounting. I asked my accountant friend about this and he
said "Forget it - keep on using Quicken! For your personal finances
double-entry accounting is overkill and you will soon get tired of it!"
What are your opinions? I am having a hard-enough time keeping up-to-date
with my single-entry Quicken accounting. Is GnuCash right for me?
The only hard thing about double-entry bookkeeping with Gnucash, in my
experience, was getting the signs right in my credit-card accounts when
entering balances for reconciliation.

Double-entry bookkeeping is based on the principle that money is always
going *from* some account *to* some other account. Your paycheck goes
from "Income--Acme Corporation" to "Checking Account". Your credit-card
purchase goes from "Credit Card--VISA" to "Expense--Clothing". Etc.
--
"If you have a flag that's bigger than your entire house, please do
not drape the thing over your roof, so it looks like a gigantic red,
white and blue dust cover." --Lynda B.
// seth gordon // ***@ropine.com // http://ropine.com/sethg/cv.html //
Daryl Lee
2002-12-04 21:58:24 UTC
Permalink
I let Quicken die a quiet death after several years of use and annual
upgrades at $45 a pop and began starting over again today with
Gnucash. I don't find the double-entry accounting any more challenging
than with Quicken. The only real difference between the two is that what
Quicken calls "categories" are well and truly accounts; Gnucash just
recognizes that fact with their terminology and user interface.
Post by Seth Gordon
Post by t***@accesscomm.ca
I have been using Quicken for many years but am now considering switching
to GnuCash. I am having a bit of trouble wrapping my mind around
double-entry accounting. I asked my accountant friend about this and he
said "Forget it - keep on using Quicken! For your personal finances
double-entry accounting is overkill and you will soon get tired of it!"
What are your opinions? I am having a hard-enough time keeping up-to-date
with my single-entry Quicken accounting. Is GnuCash right for me?
The only hard thing about double-entry bookkeeping with Gnucash, in my
experience, was getting the signs right in my credit-card accounts when
entering balances for reconciliation.
Double-entry bookkeeping is based on the principle that money is always
going *from* some account *to* some other account. Your paycheck goes
from "Income--Acme Corporation" to "Checking Account". Your credit-card
purchase goes from "Credit Card--VISA" to "Expense--Clothing". Etc.
--
"If you have a flag that's bigger than your entire house, please do
not drape the thing over your roof, so it looks like a gigantic red,
white and blue dust cover." --Lynda B.
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
http://www.gnucash.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
--
Daryl Lee
Marietta, GA
Ray Abbitt
2002-12-05 01:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daryl Lee
I let Quicken die a quiet death after several years of use and annual
upgrades at $45 a pop and began starting over again today with
Gnucash. I don't find the double-entry accounting any more challenging
than with Quicken. The only real difference between the two is that what
Quicken calls "categories" are well and truly accounts; Gnucash just
recognizes that fact with their terminology and user interface.
I only upgraded every three or four years, but I've been using Quicken
since the dos days. But I haven't (and won't) bought another Intuit
product or upgrade since they started spamming (and sold the address
to other spammers) the address I gave them for my electronic tax
filing. (And yes, I unchecked their "opt-in to spam" box.) Spam to
that address (which was never given to anybody but Intuit) has come
from intuit.com, quicken.com, emaginet.com, os-0.com and overstock.com
Despite almost 2 years of bounces (550 f___ off spammer) intuit.com
and quicken.com are still trying to send to me at least twice a month.

-ray
Cam Ellison
2002-12-05 04:07:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray Abbitt
Post by Daryl Lee
I let Quicken die a quiet death after several years of use and annual
upgrades at $45 a pop and began starting over again today with
Gnucash. I don't find the double-entry accounting any more challenging
than with Quicken. The only real difference between the two is that what
Quicken calls "categories" are well and truly accounts; Gnucash just
recognizes that fact with their terminology and user interface.
I only upgraded every three or four years, but I've been using Quicken
since the dos days. But I haven't (and won't) bought another Intuit
product or upgrade since they started spamming (and sold the address
to other spammers) the address I gave them for my electronic tax
filing. (And yes, I unchecked their "opt-in to spam" box.) Spam to
that address (which was never given to anybody but Intuit) has come
from intuit.com, quicken.com, emaginet.com, os-0.com and overstock.com
Despite almost 2 years of bounces (550 f___ off spammer) intuit.com
and quicken.com are still trying to send to me at least twice a month.
I fortunately did not go that far with Quicken that I had to deal with
the spam. The thing that used to drive me wild about was the fact
that you couldn't (can't) do proper transfers between accounts with
it. Trying to show changes in assets could be crazy-making. Coming
to Gnucash was like a breath of fresh air. Double-entry is logical,
and also forces you to be more mindful about what you're doing with
your money.

Cam
--
Cam Ellison Ph.D. R.Psych.
From Roberts Creek on B.C.'s incomparable Sunshine Coast
***@ellisonet.ca
***@dccnet.com
***@fleuryassociates.com
Rich Shepard
2002-12-05 04:42:59 UTC
Permalink
I'm just in the process of evaluating gnucash as well. I was just
searching the internet for some kind of table like you describe.
Could you email me that?
Boyd, et al.:

When I started my business I knew nothing about accounting. So, I bought a
high-school-level, soft-covered book called "Accounting Made Easy". It
answered all the basic questions; my accountant answers the tough ones.
Anyway, the basis for everthing is that is referred to as the "T-account"
that's the basis for all accounting (current corporate scandles aside):

Assets = Liabilities + Capital

or,

Assets Liabilities + Capital
________________________________
|
Debits | Credits
|

There's the "T". So, since the two sides have to balance (debits =
credits), everything follows from this. This is why Asset accounts are
debited to increase their balance and why Liability (including Expense) and
Capital (including Equity) are cedited to increase their balance. From this
comes my crib sheet tables (look above):

Asset Accounts
---------------------------
Beg. Balance |
Increases | Decreases
|


Liability & Capital Accounts
____________________________
|
Decreases | Increases
|

There's the basic accounting equation. These are what appear on the
balance sheet. On the other hand, the profit and loss statement is more
specific: income versus expenses:

Revenue (income) Accounts
_____________________________
|
Decreases | Increases
|

Expense Accounts
____________________________
|
Increase | Decreases
|

This should help you initially set up the opening balances in all of your
accounts. After that, gnucash puts the amounts in the proper column for each
transaction.

HTH,

Rich

Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President

Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM)
2404 SW 22nd Street | Troutdale, OR 97060-1247 | U.S.A.
+ 1 503-667-4517 (voice) | + 1 503-667-8863 (fax) | ***@appl-ecosys.com
http://www.appl-ecosys.com/
Henrik Ahlgren
2002-12-04 21:26:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@accesscomm.ca
I have been using Quicken for many years but am now considering switching
to GnuCash. I am having a bit of trouble wrapping my mind around
double-entry accounting. I asked my accountant friend about this and he
said "Forget it - keep on using Quicken! For your personal finances
double-entry accounting is overkill and you will soon get tired of it!"
Well, maybe he thinks high quality and free personal finance software
threatens his profession or something. It took me about two hours to
learn how to keep double-entry accounts with Gnucash and after using
the software for few months I'm already thousands of dollars wealthier
and managing my money with Gnucash has been really
enjoyable. Double-entry is far from rocket science and it's much more
useful than single-entry, if you really want to know where your money
comes from and where it goes.

I'm not familiar wit Quicken but I believe it's very mature software,
and may have some nice features Gnucash lacks, so of course you have
to ponder what's important for you.
Karl F. Larsen
2002-12-07 19:34:30 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Henrik Ahlgren wrote:


Hi Thomas, your accountant friend is correct. Double book keeping is a
royal pain in the ass, and not required for a personal checking account
and credit card system. But the unpaid writers of gnucash decided, in
error I think, to make the software complex enough to do professional
Double Entry Book Keeping.

Once they get a few more bugs out I will equip my 2 professional
Book Keepers with both Linux and gnucash and see if it really works.

Quickin knows who uses their software and will never force
double entry on their customer base.
Post by Henrik Ahlgren
Post by t***@accesscomm.ca
I have been using Quicken for many years but am now considering switching
to GnuCash. I am having a bit of trouble wrapping my mind around
double-entry accounting. I asked my accountant friend about this and he
said "Forget it - keep on using Quicken! For your personal finances
double-entry accounting is overkill and you will soon get tired of it!"
Well, maybe he thinks high quality and free personal finance software
threatens his profession or something. It took me about two hours to
--
- Karl Larsen k5di Las Cruces,NM Az ScQRPions -
Matthew Vanecek
2002-12-07 21:03:27 UTC
Permalink
Dear Karl,
I've sat by and watched your comments pop up on this list for quite a
while now. In general I find you comments to be misinformed,
destructive, and occasionally insulting. I would expect someone with
your self-asserted experience in Linux to be able to solve simple
directory permissions problems and to be able to install packages from a
distribution disk. Everyone on this list has been able to do so on a
variety of distributions, including different versions of RedHat,
Debian, SuSe, Mandrake, and Gentoo.

You have commented that you have this or that problem, but you are not
specific about the problems. You mutter about bugs, but you won't file
bug reports, nor do you seek solutions for what you consider bugs. When
you do post a question, you apparently ignore requests for more
information which would help diagnose your problems.

No one here can help you at all if you don't provide specific
information regarding issues you have. This includes such things as
file and directory permissions, versions of software, any error
messages, and related information. You do not provide such
information. Indeed, the information you do provide is badly worded and
hard to understand. I get the impression that English is not your
primary language, in which case we all need to be more careful with
wording and semantics so that we understand each other. If English is
your first language, please take the time to re-read your posts, and
word them carefully. Also, spell check them. All these steps will help
others understand your questions better.

I've been using Gnucash since 1.4.0, and I have used it in concert with
Moneydance, MS Money, and simple spreadsheets. I have found Gnucash to
be a very stable and mostly bug-free application. Most of the bugs I
have seen have been in the reports. Gnucash is currently the only
financial application I use, and I trust it as much as I trust any
software package.

The Gnucash team has worked very hard on this application for a number
of years. They are aware of most of the pitfalls in getting this up and
running; indeed, there is a notice about it on the Gnucash Web site.
How you can possibly assert that the unpaid writers were in error by
designing a professional-level package is simply amazing. Your
assertion is made even more ridiculous by your succeeding statement
about equipping your 2 bookkeppers with it. The developers have worked
out most of the bugs in Gnucash, and I know from experience that it is
very stable. From the beginning Gnucash has been designed as a package
that would compete with the likes of Quicken and Peachtree. That may
not fit your philosophy, but your philosophy is not the only way to do
things, nor is it necessarily the best way.

You are free to state you opinions, of course, but they would be better
received were they based on fact and backed up by references and
examples. I'm sure you are a very nice person, and I truly understand
the frustration that comes with software that doesn't behave as
expected. If you want help, you should be clear, concise, and
responsive to requests for more information. Otherwise, nobody will be
able to respond, and you'll be left spluttering about broken software
(which really isn't) full of bugs (which really aren't), and passing on
misleading advice to others based on your frustration.

Lastly, double-entry accounting is fairly easy, and a wonderful way of
tracking cash flow and liabilities. If all you want is to track the
balance of your checking/saving accounts and credit cards, then a simple
spreadsheet would do. But I would still recommend Gnucash, because it
can do a simple checkbook just as well as complicated net worth
management. Think of it this way: if Quicken, or MS Money, or
Peachtree, or Moneydance are too much for you, then Gnucash is too much
for you, and you should probably just use the register book that came
with your checks.

Please don't attack the developers--they do a wonderful, wonderful job
and deserve better.
Post by Karl F. Larsen
Hi Thomas, your accountant friend is correct. Double book keeping is a
royal pain in the ass, and not required for a personal checking account
and credit card system. But the unpaid writers of gnucash decided, in
error I think, to make the software complex enough to do professional
Double Entry Book Keeping.
Once they get a few more bugs out I will equip my 2 professional
Book Keepers with both Linux and gnucash and see if it really works.
Quickin knows who uses their software and will never force
double entry on their customer base.
--
Matthew Vanecek
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5,(41*2),sqrt(7056),(unpack(c,H)-2),oct(115),10);'
********************************************************************************
For 93 million miles, there is nothing between the sun and my shadow except me.
I'm always getting in the way of something...
Karl F. Larsen
2002-12-07 21:24:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Vanecek
Dear Karl,
I've sat by and watched your comments pop up on this list for quite a
while now. In general I find you comments to be misinformed,
In general I find your comments on my comments to be far too long and
are filled with praise for the people who wrote and like gnucash.

Also you are registerd twice and you send your comments to EVERYONE on
this list twice.


I would expect someone with
Post by Matthew Vanecek
your self-asserted experience in Linux to be able to solve simple
directory permissions problems and to be able to install packages from a
distribution disk.
For your information I know ALL about permissions and they have
NOTHING TO DO with the BUG in gnucash.

Everyone on this list has been able to do so on a
Post by Matthew Vanecek
variety of distributions, including different versions of RedHat,
Debian, SuSe, Mandrake, and Gentoo.
Has anyone done it on Red Hat 8.0 and had differnet results?

Your attack on me is small and un-necessary. What I find wrong
with gnucash version 1.6.6 is fact and explained with enough detail to
allow anyone to reproduce the problem.

If anyone is able to make a directory with gnucash 1.6.6 and
load the backup files to that directory on Red Hat 8.0 I want to hear
from them, not from you who does not have the same Linux I do!
--
- Karl Larsen k5di Las Cruces,NM Az ScQRPions -
Chris Lyttle
2002-12-07 21:49:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karl F. Larsen
If anyone is able to make a directory with gnucash 1.6.6 and
load the backup files to that directory on Red Hat 8.0 I want to hear
from them, not from you who does not have the same Linux I do!
I have done this multiple times with GnuCash 1.6.6 on RH 8.0, 7.3, 7.2
with success and without the problems you described. I have made backup
files, restored backup files, copied them from previous versions of RH,
other linux versions, etc. In short I have tried, without being able to
_once_ to recreated what you describe with the information you gave.
This is why people request more information from you. I stand behind
Mathews statements. Instead of being combatitive and accussing the
developers of incompetence you need to ask for help and give information
to help them solve your problems. Instead you seem to be set on taking
them to task for what in your mind is the shortcomings of GnuCash. This
is neither constructive nor helpful. So far all you have done is made up
the mind of most people who could help to not help you. I will not reply
again to you.

Chris Lyttle
GnuCash developer
--
RedHat Certified Engineer #807302549405490.
--------------------------------------------
|^|
| | |^|
| |^| | | Life out here is raw
| | |^| | But we will never stop
| |_|_| | We will never quit
| / __> | cause we are Metallica
|/ / |
\ /
| |
--------------------------------------------
Karl F. Larsen
2002-12-07 22:47:16 UTC
Permalink
OK Chris, in as simple a way as possible here is what happens. I
load gnucash to Red Hat 8.0 with zero problems. I learned how to delete
the control files that are made like .gnucash so I can bring up the
software for the first time.

I cancel all the stuff that wants to make an account tree and
leave only gnucash up and running. I make the accounts I want and when
done I hit Exit. A panel comes up saying I made changes and asked do I
want to save this. I say Yes.

It comes up with another panel that lets me make a new directory
cash in /home/karl/. I do that and click OK and I get another panel with
a ! in a circle that says can't use /home/karl/cash/. If you redo it 2
times gnucash fails and I'm asked to submit a bug report.

That is as far as I can get with it. The idea that there is a
permissions problem is not possible since the whole thing is running on
the permissions of user karl and everything in that directory tree
belongs to karl. But ANYONE can enter /home/ or /home/karl/ or
/home/karl/cash/. I checked this with user postgres.

I got it working by making a directory /home/karl/cash/ and
putting files from an earlier version of gnucash in the directory. Then
I asked gnucash to use these files and it did.


This computer is a stock work station load of Red Hat 8.0
--
- Karl Larsen k5di Las Cruces,NM Az ScQRPions -
Matthew Vanecek
2002-12-07 23:31:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karl F. Larsen
I cancel all the stuff that wants to make an account tree and
leave only gnucash up and running. I make the accounts I want and when
done I hit Exit. A panel comes up saying I made changes and asked do I
want to save this. I say Yes.
It comes up with another panel that lets me make a new directory
cash in /home/karl/. I do that and click OK and I get another panel with
a ! in a circle that says can't use /home/karl/cash/. If you redo it 2
times gnucash fails and I'm asked to submit a bug report.
Are you using the "Create Dir" button in the Save dialog? I've noticed
that if you click the "Create Dir" button, it expects you to type in a
single name. It sounds like you are typing "cash" in the "Create Dir"
dialog, and then immediately clicking Ok in the Save dialog. Have you
entered a filename in the "Selection" entry field? or is it the
directory name showing up in there? You'll want to make sure you enter
a valid file name in the "Selection" entry field of the Save dialog,
after creating/navigating to the appropriate directory.
Post by Karl F. Larsen
That is as far as I can get with it. The idea that there is a
permissions problem is not possible since the whole thing is running on
the permissions of user karl and everything in that directory tree
belongs to karl. But ANYONE can enter /home/ or /home/karl/ or
/home/karl/cash/. I checked this with user postgres.
We may have misunderstood your original post as not being able to write
to a file in a specified directory, which would of course imply a
permissions problem.

HTH,
--
Matthew Vanecek
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5,(41*2),sqrt(7056),(unpack(c,H)-2),oct(115),10);'
********************************************************************************
For 93 million miles, there is nothing between the sun and my shadow except me.
I'm always getting in the way of something...
Matthew Vanecek
2002-12-07 22:41:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karl F. Larsen
Also you are registerd twice and you send your comments to EVERYONE on
this list twice.
I'm registered once. My comments went once to the list, and once to
you, the same as your reply.
Post by Karl F. Larsen
I would expect someone with
Post by Matthew Vanecek
your self-asserted experience in Linux to be able to solve simple
directory permissions problems and to be able to install packages from a
distribution disk.
For your information I know ALL about permissions and they have
NOTHING TO DO with the BUG in gnucash.
That was the thread theat most stuck out in my mind, with Dr. Shephard
requesting file permission information from you. Perhaps I missed
something, so I'll check the archives...
Post by Karl F. Larsen
Everyone on this list has been able to do so on a
Post by Matthew Vanecek
variety of distributions, including different versions of RedHat,
Debian, SuSe, Mandrake, and Gentoo.
Your attack on me is small and un-necessary. What I find wrong
with gnucash version 1.6.6 is fact and explained with enough detail to
allow anyone to reproduce the problem.
I'm not attacking you. I've not called you names, or insulted your
race, gender, or heritage. The closest I came was pointing out your
questionable grammar. I apologize if my note caused undue levels of
defensiveness for you. What I was explaining was how to get help on
this list, and also frustration with what I perceive to be your lack of
responsiveness and clarity as well as what I perceive to be your attacks
on the development team sans helpful suggestions. Anyhow, not a very
immportant issue with respect to using Gnucash.
Post by Karl F. Larsen
If anyone is able to make a directory with gnucash 1.6.6 and
load the backup files to that directory on Red Hat 8.0 I want to hear
from them, not from you who does not have the same Linux I do!
Gnucash does not create directories. Gnucash saves files in
directories, assuming that you have write permission to write in that
directory. The generic Gnome Save dialog does indeed have a "Create
Dir" button, and it apparently has problem creating directories if you
type a full path (e.g./home/user/gnucash as opposed to "gnucash"). Is
that the function you are referring to? If you forward me a copy of the
message in which you stated you couldn't create directories while using
"File|Save" or "File|Save As" and pressing the "Create Dir" button, I
will gladly and publicly apologize for my obtuseness, and respond with a
hopefully helpful message. As for loading the backup files to that
directory, I assume you mean using Gnucash to move the files from their
current location to the new directory. Gnucash does not do that--a file
manager is what you want. Gnucash is a finance manager, not a file
manager.

I don't want to start an insult war, but I believe that you *are* less
than forthcoming with information about what you think is wrong. Your
above statement is about the clearest response I've seen WRT to your
issues. If my explanation of what I guess to be your actions is
incorrect, please explain exactly from where in Gnucash your are trying
to create directories, including the menu items you select to get there.

Also, reading most of the responses to your questions, I've noticed that
almost everyone says something like "it works great for me, can you send
some more information?".

With respect to your question about the file history on the File menu
(the ones with "1. /home/karl/cash..."), that's the history of what
files you have opened with Gnucash. When you click one of those,
Gnucash tries to open the file *if it exists!!*. If the files don't
exist, Gnucash will tell you it couldn't open the file. If you want to
clear that out, you can edit ~/.gnome/GnuCash, and look down in the
[History] section. Remove the file entries there, and they won't show
up on the File menu anymore.

Yes, I'm verbose. It's part of my charm...
--
Matthew Vanecek
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5,(41*2),sqrt(7056),(unpack(c,H)-2),oct(115),10);'
********************************************************************************
For 93 million miles, there is nothing between the sun and my shadow except me.
I'm always getting in the way of something...
Shayne Lennox
2002-12-08 01:08:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
Post by Karl F. Larsen
Hi Thomas, your accountant friend is correct. Double book keeping is a
royal pain in the ass, and not required for a personal checking account
and credit card system. But the unpaid writers of gnucash decided, in
error I think, to make the software complex enough to do professional
Double Entry Book Keeping.
Once they get a few more bugs out I will equip my 2 professional
Book Keepers with both Linux and gnucash and see if it really works.
Quickin knows who uses their software and will never force
double entry on their customer base.
I used Quicken for several months before I got annoyed at its telephone
activation requirement (in the Australian version) when reinstalling. When
this pushed me to search for an alternative and I read about GnuCash, on
slashdot for example, the issue of double-entry and what a pain in the
behind it is was always brought up. I didn't know what double-entry was,
but my initial thought was that it meant I would have to enter every
transaction twice (manually), which would indeed be a pain.

When I loaded GnuCash on Mandrake, read the help file, set up my accounts,
and fiddled with it for a while, it became clear that this double-entry
thing was virtually a non issue. I only have to enter each transaction
once, as I did in Quicken. And the "accounts" required by double-entry are
virtually synonymous with Quicken's "categories". The only difference, for
me, is that it's kind of nice having everything as an "account" instead of
a "category" because it's quicker and easier to view and manage them.

The main issue with double-entry (or the way it works in GnuCash) is
handling of foreign currency transactions. Doing a withdrawal from my USD
PayPal account to my AUD bank account can be quite confusing, and having
separate accounts with " - USD" tacked on the end is a pain as well as
being kind of ugly to look at.

Most other issues I have with GnuCash have nothing to do with double-entry.
For example, the accounts tree always being collapsed when I start the
program, the description column in the accounts tree not adjusting
properly, the lack of auto-save, not being able to clear a split easily,
not being able to do an automatic "balance adjustment" in cash accounts,
everything after the "&" character in the memo field disappearing, the
"find" function not working half the time, having to do
update-finance-quote (worked in Red Hat, didn't work in Mandrake), the
price editor updating currencies but not my ASX shares, the lack of
scheduled transactions, the lack of forecast-based reports/graphs, and all
the rest and so forth, have nothing to do with double-entry :-)

I know some of these issues are addressed in the next version, although I
don't yet have the confidence with Linux to install anything other than
what's included with the distribution.

On GnuCash vs Quicken, I think Quicken is superior for Joe User wanting to
manage his personal finances. In order for me to gain the motivation
required to switch to GnuCash and boot into Linux once a day just to use
it, I had to become extremely irate at Quicken's forced registration and
activation. Joe User probably won't. I recall reading comments from the
developers of a year or two ago positioning GnuCash as a competitor to
Quicken, but I find it hard to believe. GnuCash in its present form seems
to appeal mainly to advanced users.

On the other hand, I am glad that GnuCash offered me a pretty decent
alternative, particularly when you remember that it hasn't been around for
nearly as long as Quicken, and that it's maintained by volunteers who have
a limited amount of time/motivation to work on it.

Regards,

Shayne Lennox

P.S. How come David Gilbert's excellent user guide at
http://www.object-refinery.com/gnucash/ doesn't get mentioned more often?
Christian Stimming
2002-12-08 01:42:17 UTC
Permalink
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Post by Shayne Lennox
The main issue with double-entry (or the way it works in GnuCash) is
handling of foreign currency transactions. Doing a withdrawal from my USD
PayPal account to my AUD bank account can be quite confusing, and having
separate accounts with " - USD" tacked on the end is a pain as well as
being kind of ugly to look at.
In the upcoming version, you can actually make transactions between your USD
paypal account (Asset type, I guess) and your normal AUD expense accounts. We
are (well, namely Derek is) still working hard to get this implemented
properly.
Post by Shayne Lennox
Most other issues I have with GnuCash have nothing to do with double-entry.
For example, the accounts tree always being collapsed when I start the
program,
Right. Bothers me too. I work around it by having a "account summary" report
always opened, showing my favorite accounts so that I can directly click on
them.
Post by Shayne Lennox
the description column in the accounts tree not adjusting properly,
Huh? What precisely is the bug here? Maybe this one might be easy to fix.
Post by Shayne Lennox
the lack of auto-save,
Oh. A perfectly valid feature request. Why don't you file this in bugzilla as
"enhancement" request? Shouldn't be too difficult to implement.
Post by Shayne Lennox
not being able to clear a split easily,
Err... can you explain more what you mean by this one?
Post by Shayne Lennox
not being able to do an automatic "balance adjustment" in cash accounts,
Right, we have had this discussion every so often, but nobody found a "real
easy" way to correctly implement it. It's a perfectly valid feature request,
though. Maybe another "enhancement" request in bugzilla?
Post by Shayne Lennox
everything after the "&" character in the memo field disappearing,
Right, that's a bug, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100428 so we'll
be fixing this one pretty soon.
Post by Shayne Lennox
the "find" function not working half the time,
I don't know anything about this one, though.
Post by Shayne Lennox
having to do update-finance-quote (worked in Red Hat, didn't work in
Mandrake), the price editor updating currencies but not my ASX shares,
There are improvements coming here, too.
Post by Shayne Lennox
the lack of scheduled transactions,
Hey jsled! Here's your guy.
Seriously, scheduled transactions are one of the Big New Things in 1.8.
Post by Shayne Lennox
the lack of forecast-based reports/graphs,
Cool. Interesting idea. Never thought of this. There have been discussions
about Budgeting (which basically said that's it's quite difficult to get it
right), but maybe forecast reports are much easier. This would still need a
lot of discussion about what can be done and what cannot be done -- but if
you can come up with a very simple case that would be an improvement for you,
then maybe somebody will quickly do it?
Post by Shayne Lennox
P.S. How come David Gilbert's excellent user guide at
http://www.object-refinery.com/gnucash/ doesn't get mentioned more often?
Gee. I haven't seen this at all. Chris, what do you think of this manual...

Christian
Chris Lyttle
2002-12-08 01:47:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christian Stimming
Post by Shayne Lennox
P.S. How come David Gilbert's excellent user guide at
http://www.object-refinery.com/gnucash/ doesn't get mentioned more often?
Gee. I haven't seen this at all. Chris, what do you think of this manual...
I'd heard of it (and that it was quite good). David has actually offered
to help proofread the new things we are putting into the help for 1.8. I
avoided reading it myself as I didn't want any of his ideas to creep
into what I was writing and be accused of pilfering (its non-free).

Chris
--
RedHat Certified Engineer #807302549405490.
--------------------------------------------
|^|
| | |^|
| |^| | | Life out here is raw
| | |^| | But we will never stop
| |_|_| | We will never quit
| / __> | cause we are Metallica
|/ / |
\ /
| |
--------------------------------------------
Roland Roberts
2002-12-12 20:00:23 UTC
Permalink
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
cs> On Sonntag, 8. Dezember 2002 02:08, Shayne Lennox wrote:
[...]
Post by Shayne Lennox
not being able to clear a split easily,
cs> Err... can you explain more what you mean by this one?

I'm not sure what Shayne meant, but I have a (minor) complaint there;
the default display mode is one-line per transaction and if you are
entering a new transaction, GnuCash's memorized transactions will
automatically fill in the splits from the last time you made a similar
entry. Sometimes that's not what you want and there is no quick way
to just clear the whole split and start over.

Sort-of related is that in the default one-line-per-transaction mode,
the comments fields get duplicated from a previous transaction even
though they may be completely inappropriate. Yes, I know I can change
the view to automatically show me that information, but (1) I'd like
GnuCash to remember that setting the next time I open the file, and
(2) I'd like that auto-split feature to not require me to enter the
amounts in the splits area when there is only one item in the "split".

Both of the above two paragraphs are Quicken-like behavior and, like
Shayne, I abandoned Quicken in favor of GnuCash. My reasons were that
(1) Quicken managed to scramble some of our accounts and lost
transactions that had been reconciled 4 years previously(!) and (2)
the newer versions of Quicken would no longer run on my wife's Mac
under OS 8.1 and her Mac could not be reliably upgraded to 8.5. It
was easier to convert to GnuCash and get my wife to access it via VNC
from her Mac. Using VNC also meant that we no longer had a conflict
over access to her computer when updating our accounts.

roland
- --
PGP Key ID: 66 BC 3B CD
Roland B. Roberts, PhD RL Enterprises
***@rlenter.com 6818 Madeline Court
***@astrofoto.org Brooklyn, NY 11220
Chris Lyttle
2002-12-12 21:11:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christian Stimming
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
[...]
Post by Shayne Lennox
not being able to clear a split easily,
cs> Err... can you explain more what you mean by this one?
I'm not sure what Shayne meant, but I have a (minor) complaint there;
the default display mode is one-line per transaction and if you are
entering a new transaction, GnuCash's memorized transactions will
automatically fill in the splits from the last time you made a similar
entry. Sometimes that's not what you want and there is no quick way
to just clear the whole split and start over.
Sort-of related is that in the default one-line-per-transaction mode,
the comments fields get duplicated from a previous transaction even
though they may be completely inappropriate. Yes, I know I can change
the view to automatically show me that information, but (1) I'd like
GnuCash to remember that setting the next time I open the file, and
(2) I'd like that auto-split feature to not require me to enter the
amounts in the splits area when there is only one item in the "split".
I'm not sure if you're using 1.6 or the new 1.7 version, so I'll comment
here on both. The feature you're asking about here is in 1.6, tho its a
bit non obvious how to get it. When entering a transaction, if you do
the tab thing then click delete GnuCash 1.6 will ask you either to
delete the whole transaction or to just remove the splits. In 1.7/1.8 we
changed this to make it a menu item called Remove Transaction Splits on
the Actions menu. What this does is remove all parts of the transaction
except the currently opened account. This also removes and memo's but
not the current account's description and amount. Also to avoid the
auto-fill of the transaction, once you type the description just select
the Transfer field with your mouse instead of tab (This is explained in
the new help).
Your second point also touches on some already included features. To
enable auto-split by default you can set this in the preferences under
Register. The 'Default Register Style' dropdown menu lets you select
'Auto-ledger' which will make all accounts use auto-split mode when
opened. The problem with not entering the amount in the splits area is
that GnuCash has no way of knowing if you are going to make more than 2
splits or not.

Chris
--
RedHat Certified Engineer #807302549405490.
--------------------------------------------
|^|
| | |^|
| |^| | | Life out here is raw
| | |^| | But we will never stop
| |_|_| | We will never quit
| / __> | cause we are Metallica
|/ / |
\ /
| |
--------------------------------------------
Roland Roberts
2002-12-13 16:51:55 UTC
Permalink
Chris> The feature you're asking about here is in 1.6,
[...]
Chris> Your second point also touches on some already included
Chris> features.
[...]

Thanks for the tips! I'm using 1.6 and I'll have to look to see how
to use these, then teach my wife, too, since she uses it as much as I
do. My wife's use of GnuCash is actually a very strong endorsement of
it's usability by non-computer and non-finance people. Thanks for the
great work!

roland
--
PGP Key ID: 66 BC 3B CD
Roland B. Roberts, PhD RL Enterprises
***@rlenter.com 6818 Madeline Court
***@astrofoto.org Brooklyn, NY 11220
Shayne Lennox
2002-12-08 08:01:55 UTC
Permalink
Hi Christian,
Post by Christian Stimming
Post by Shayne Lennox
the description column in the accounts tree not adjusting properly,
Huh? What precisely is the bug here? Maybe this one might be easy to fix.
The Account Name column containing the tree is pretty narrow by default
(just enough to accomodate the top-level account names "Assets",
"Expenses", etc.) but readjusts itself when you expand the tree. The
Description column is the same, but doesn't readjust itself after you
expand the tree, revealing the account descriptions of the child accounts,
so many of those descriptions are cut off. I actually came up with a bit of
a workaround for this today: giving the top level accounts a description,
then adding a lot of whitespace to the end of one of the descriptions,
causes the description column to be wider by default.
Post by Christian Stimming
Post by Shayne Lennox
not being able to clear a split easily,
Err... can you explain more what you mean by this one?
This is a bit of a leftover from my Quicken days. If I entered a
transaction and split it between multiple "categories" (e.g. one
transaction, but some spent on Petrol and the rest spent on Groceries) but
later wanted to change it to a single category or simply start over having
messed up the splits, there was a simple "X" button which would clear them,
and you'd just set the category again (all other parts of the transaction
were maintained). In GnuCash, you have to both delete the split line(s) you
want to get rid of and rebalance the transaction manually.

I'm not sure where a feature to quickly clear splits might cause problems
with double-entry. Presumably the splits would all be cleared, the
debit/credit amount would come from the split of the account you're working
in, and the cursor would move to the Transfer field ready to select a new
account.
Post by Christian Stimming
Post by Shayne Lennox
not being able to do an automatic "balance adjustment" in cash accounts,
Right, we have had this discussion every so often, but nobody found a "real
easy" way to correctly implement it. It's a perfectly valid feature request,
though. Maybe another "enhancement" request in bugzilla?
There might be something I'm not considering, but I'm thinking this would
be one of the less difficult things to implement. Cash accounts would have
a simple "balance adjustment" instead of a full "reconcile" feature. This
idea is actually pinched from Quicken. You just enter the real amount after
counting your pennies, select an account in the dialog (e.g.
"Expenses:Misc", which the balance adjustment dialog would then default to)
and an adjustment transaction is entered.
Post by Christian Stimming
Post by Shayne Lennox
the "find" function not working half the time,
I don't know anything about this one, though.
The feature not working "half the time" for me simply has to do with the
fact that I almost always do a find either by Description or Memo, but the
latter search doesn't seem to work at all.

One additional thing about the find function. If you're working in an
account and click the find button, it would be nice if that account were
selected by default in the tree in the find dialog.
Post by Christian Stimming
Post by Shayne Lennox
the lack of scheduled transactions,
Hey jsled! Here's your guy.
Seriously, scheduled transactions are one of the Big New Things in 1.8.
This, alongside the improved currency handling, is one of the features I'm
excited about and missed most from Quicken. Unfortunately, I don't have the
confidence to install the beta, so I can't try the features and comment on
how they've been implemented before the 1.8 release.
Post by Christian Stimming
Post by Shayne Lennox
the lack of forecast-based reports/graphs,
Cool. Interesting idea. Never thought of this. There have been discussions
about Budgeting (which basically said that's it's quite difficult to get it
right), but maybe forecast reports are much easier. This would still need a
lot of discussion about what can be done and what cannot be done -- but if
you can come up with a very simple case that would be an improvement for you,
then maybe somebody will quickly do it?
I hate to use the "Q word" again, but forecasting based on scheduled
transactions was one of the useful things in Quicken, so it's not really my
idea.

One of the problems I have with GnuCash, with its lack of scheduled
transactions, is that I no longer know what my position will be in the next
week or month. Now scheduled transactions are implemented, and that
automation makes entering regular transactions quicker and easier. But that
in itself doesn't show me what's coming up -- there needs to be a
report/graph or something that uses that information to do so.

Say that, being frugal about bank fees, I need to keep my bank account
balance above $1000 to avoid a $6 account keeping fee. There's also this
nice impact drill for $200, it's a nice sunny Sunday to drive down to the
hardware store and get it, and there's $1300 in my account which seems to
cover it. However, I've forgotten about a monthly bill of $50 on Tuesday,
and a quarterly bill of $150 on Friday, both due before my next fortnightly
paycheck the following Monday:

A bar graph showing my bank balance for the next week or two, based on my
scheduled income/expense transactions, will show that my balance will be
down to at least $1100 on Friday, and if I were to buy the $199 drill today
it would go below my $1000 barrier. Better to wait a couple of weeks. It
may actually sound a bit silly just to avoid a $6 bank fee, but this sort
of forecasting is important for fringe dwellers, particularly if it were a
matter not of dropping below $1000, but below $0.

Perhaps the quickest implementation, and one that I would be satisfied with
initially, would be to show these future transactions in the account
register. This is one thing Quicken does, placing these future-dated
transactions in the register below a blue line, e.g:

6/12/2002 Some Transaction ($20) $1300
-----------------------------------------------------
10/12/2002 Nasty Bill ($50) $1250
12/12/2002 Nastier Bill ($150) $1100
16/12/2002 Income $1000 $2100

Although scheduled transactions don't show all coming income/expenses (e.g.
groceries, petrol), the above still gives me a much better idea of how
things look over the next couple of weeks.

Regards,

Shayne Lennox
David Hampton
2002-12-08 09:36:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shayne Lennox
The Account Name column containing the tree is pretty narrow by default
(just enough to accomodate the top-level account names "Assets",
"Expenses", etc.) but readjusts itself when you expand the tree. The
Description column is the same, but doesn't readjust itself after you
expand the tree, revealing the account descriptions of the child accounts,
so many of those descriptions are cut off. I actually came up with a bit of
a workaround for this today: giving the top level accounts a description,
then adding a lot of whitespace to the end of one of the descriptions,
causes the description column to be wider by default.
This was fixed in the CVS version of gnucash a long time ago.
Post by Shayne Lennox
This is a bit of a leftover from my Quicken days. If I entered a
transaction and split it between multiple "categories" (e.g. one
transaction, but some spent on Petrol and the rest spent on Groceries) but
later wanted to change it to a single category or simply start over having
messed up the splits, there was a simple "X" button which would clear them,
and you'd just set the category again (all other parts of the transaction
were maintained). In GnuCash, you have to both delete the split line(s) you
want to get rid of and rebalance the transaction manually.
I'm not sure where a feature to quickly clear splits might cause problems
with double-entry. Presumably the splits would all be cleared, the
debit/credit amount would come from the split of the account you're working
in, and the cursor would move to the Transfer field ready to select a new
account.
This has already been implemented in CVS. You'll see it in 1.8.
Post by Shayne Lennox
Post by Christian Stimming
Post by Shayne Lennox
not being able to do an automatic "balance adjustment" in cash accounts,
Right, we have had this discussion every so often, but nobody found a "real
easy" way to correctly implement it. It's a perfectly valid feature request,
though. Maybe another "enhancement" request in bugzilla?
There might be something I'm not considering, but I'm thinking this would
be one of the less difficult things to implement. Cash accounts would have
a simple "balance adjustment" instead of a full "reconcile" feature. This
idea is actually pinched from Quicken. You just enter the real amount after
counting your pennies, select an account in the dialog (e.g.
"Expenses:Misc", which the balance adjustment dialog would then default to)
and an adjustment transaction is entered.
This is a reasonable request. I do this manually all the time for my
Cash In Hand account. File a Request For Enhancement in buzgilla. I'm
sure it will get assigned to me, it always seems to :-), and I'll take
care of it.
Post by Shayne Lennox
This, alongside the improved currency handling, is one of the features I'm
excited about and missed most from Quicken. Unfortunately, I don't have the
confidence to install the beta, so I can't try the features and comment on
how they've been implemented before the 1.8 release.
Well, then how do you expect us to produce a solid release if you are
unwilling to test it? I have never had a product ship that some user
hasn't come along and found some set of input that I never dreamed was
possible. I have also never tried a new program and not found five to
ten ways to make it break. The best way to find bugs in a program is
for people to use it. We need your help, because we need a wide variety
of users trying to do a slew of different things with the program, and
each person does things his or her own way. We can't work in a vacuum,
although we do try very hard.

For the record, I've been using gnucash CVS for the last nine months to
record all of my finances. There have been glitches here and there in
the program, but I have not lost a single transaction.

David
Conrad Canterford
2002-12-08 11:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Hampton
Post by Shayne Lennox
not being able to do an automatic "balance adjustment" in cash accounts,
This is a reasonable request. I do this manually all the time for my
Cash In Hand account. File a Request For Enhancement in buzgilla. I'm
sure it will get assigned to me, it always seems to :-), and I'll take
care of it.
Dammit. Knew I should have put that into Bugzilla as a feature
suggestion months ago. What I was thinking of was a bit more complicated
though (actually, a lot more complicated). What I want is a special
transaction that *forces* the account to have a particular balance at
the specified date, regardless of any subsequent changes that happen
before it. This would mean that I could say "This account had a balance
of $252.59 on 8/12/2002", and it would keep that balance on that date
even if, at some time in the future, I find one of the missing receipts
from before that date and enter it (it would then change its adjustment
amount to keep the balance the same).
Post by David Hampton
Well, then how do you expect us to produce a solid release if you are
unwilling to test it? I have never had a product ship that some user
hasn't come along and found some set of input that I never dreamed was
possible. I have also never tried a new program and not found five to
ten ways to make it break. The best way to find bugs in a program is
for people to use it. We need your help, because we need a wide variety
of users trying to do a slew of different things with the program, and
each person does things his or her own way. We can't work in a vacuum,
although we do try very hard.
I'm sure David didn't mean to sound quite so irritated at you personally
(though I could be wrong... :-)). Tell us what distro and version
you're running, and maybe someone will be able to build you a binary for
you to install. I won't promise (depends on if you're running a
compatible distro to one used by someone running CVS). Either that, or
join the #gnucash channel on irc.gnome.org and someone can talk you
through downloading and building from CVS (depending how much help you
need, of course).

For the record, I too am using CVS gnucash for my real data, and that's
non-trivial. It is very solid, but do remember to save regularly just in
case you do find a spot where it isn't.

Conrad.
Shayne Lennox
2002-12-09 06:38:02 UTC
Permalink
Hi David/Conrad,
Post by Conrad Canterford
Post by David Hampton
Well, then how do you expect us to produce a solid release if you are
unwilling to test it? I have never had a product ship that some user
hasn't come along and found some set of input that I never dreamed was
possible. I have also never tried a new program and not found five to
ten ways to make it break. The best way to find bugs in a program is
for people to use it. We need your help, because we need a wide variety
of users trying to do a slew of different things with the program, and
each person does things his or her own way. We can't work in a vacuum,
although we do try very hard.
I'm sure David didn't mean to sound quite so irritated at you personally
(though I could be wrong... :-)). Tell us what distro and version
you're running, and maybe someone will be able to build you a binary for
you to install. I won't promise (depends on if you're running a
compatible distro to one used by someone running CVS). Either that, or
join the #gnucash channel on irc.gnome.org and someone can talk you
through downloading and building from CVS (depending how much help you
need, of course).
Installation is where the problem lies for me. At this point, I have little
experience installing things myself on Linux, only with getting some of the
"easy to use" distros (Mandrake and Red Hat 8.0) installed and selecting
gnucash from the available packages. When I progress beyond this depends
when I get around to using the OS for more than just GnuCash and read a big
fat Linux book. In the meantime, I haven't wanted to irritate people with
installation questions that might be considered general Linux knowledge I
should have known already before trying to install it.

So at the moment, double-clicking on an rpm file and invoking the graphical
package manager is the best I can do on my own. When I run
gnucash-1.7.5-1.i386.rpm, it complains about not having g-wrap >= 1.3.2
(and some other files). When I run g-wrap-1.3.2-1.i386.rpm, it complains
about not having libguile.so.6 (and one other file). When I run a guile rpm
with libguile.so.6 that I found through google, it complains that a newer
version of guile is already installed.

If I can break through the installation barrier, I would definitely give
the beta version a try. I'm currently running Red Hat 8.0.

Regards,

Shayne Lennox
Roland Roberts
2002-12-12 20:06:26 UTC
Permalink
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Post by Shayne Lennox
There might be something I'm not considering, but I'm thinking
this would be one of the less difficult things to
implement. Cash accounts would have a simple "balance
adjustment" instead of a full "reconcile" feature. This idea is
actually pinched from Quicken. You just enter the real amount
after counting your pennies, select an account in the dialog
(e.g. "Expenses:Misc", which the balance adjustment dialog
would then default to) and an adjustment transaction is
entered.
David> This is a reasonable request. I do this manually all the
David> time for my Cash In Hand account. File a Request For
David> Enhancement in buzgilla. I'm sure it will get assigned to
David> me, it always seems to :-), and I'll take care of it.

FWIW, Quicken's behavior is to clear the transactions as if you had
gone through a reconcile step. I, too, periodically add a "Balance
Adjustment" entry, but I'm also anal about going back and reconciling
the account just so all those little checkboxes are checked off....

roland
- --
PGP Key ID: 66 BC 3B CD
Roland B. Roberts, PhD RL Enterprises
***@rlenter.com 6818 Madeline Court
***@astrofoto.org Brooklyn, NY 11220
Shayne Lennox
2002-12-08 08:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shayne Lennox
6/12/2002 Some Transaction ($20) $1300
-----------------------------------------------------
10/12/2002 Nasty Bill ($50) $1250
12/12/2002 Nastier Bill ($150) $1100
16/12/2002 Income $1000 $2100
Of course GnuCash, unlike me, would calculate the balance correctly :)

Regards,

Shayne Lennox
Gearry Judkins
2002-12-09 04:12:49 UTC
Permalink
Shayne Lennox wrote:
|For example, the accounts tree always being collapsed when
| I start the program, the description column in the accounts tree not
| adjusting properly,
I am runninng 1.6.6 on Debian and I was also annoyed by this. My
solution, get rid of the account tree and use the account summary report
with the account display depth adjusted to the level that I wanted. I
find this report very useful just to check amounts, and I can use the
hyperlinked account names to get to any registers that I may want.
Works great.

Gearry
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